Alt.Mustardland

Email me with a few details of surnames. Did you say you were born in a Derbyshire military hospital? I know your date of birth, but not your middle name if any. From which I could find a birth registration and mother's maiden name. Or tell me that, and her father's burial should be clear. But only the burial service. The parish would be specified, but there may be a local book held by the sexton showing where graves actually are. Sometimes they have to clear some of the graves to make room for new burials, but I don't think they are up to post war yet. Cue the B side of Peter Sellers "Goodness Gracious Me" entitled "They're removing grandpa's grave to build a sewer". Quite funny if it isn't your grandpa.

I really will come over your side of the country when we are able to travel. Visiting Wat Tyler will be a treat, and maybe eventually on into Norfolk and the Wash to see the fens. I want to see Sutton Hoo, and Grimes Graves.

I do have my Birth Cert: Lockington Hall, Castle Donnington. - The building still exists, and is now a business office Donnington was a RAF station (The House was near its perimeter) that was used for damaged aircraft, returning from Germany, but were too damaged to risk ruining a good runway at their own base??. ** (see note) Donnington (or Donnington Park) racetrack (cars and latterly Motor bikes, not Hosses) is also nearby, but I believe it is now a Racing Museum.

Two things: I have some details of my Mothers Parents (and have some that My (late) cousin collected from a different source - but not necessarily the same - I feel mine are more likely than Whatever my cousin got from workmate who found details overnight.
secondly... I don't have all my details in one place... I am Knee deep in paperwork here and put stuff "somewhere safe" untill I can get stuff into rellevant collections. Before I got "Drummed out" of Facebook, there was a group within the group that were the Babes of Castle Donnington, and a short lived addition by a Local Librarian to the County... Oh yes, Don't rely on the "Derby" name... For obvious reason I wasn't there to check(?) but actual names were removed to foil the enemy as the D-Day Lorries, Fuel Tankers anf Military tanks were alongside the road (I think it is/was The A6) on loaded lorries.
One of the stories in Facebook, was that at sometime (before it became a maternity unit for Londoners) it was itself a Military Hospital for the Canadian RAF - possibly connected with the RAF Station. ******

OK. Mum's Birthday.
22nd Jan, 1913. By that time I'm fairly certain that My Grandad and wife were had moved to 162, Daubeney Road, Clapton (Hackney) London E5. It looks like those Houses and Road were built and/or completed in 1909****

Mothers Dad
I would have to find records, but I think His Birthdate was 1865, possibly later. - He walked to London to find work when He was 16 (give or take). His Yorkshire home was a District called Maningham, in a suburb of Bradford. His name was Benjimen Fox, BUT I have seen his forname spelt differently (when I did some research with an Essex Library group who tells me that there are normally two cencus-taker mistakes on every Census form page (Benjamine, Benjimin, Benjemin). In London He married a "Lady's maid" in an address near "Bricklayers Arms" An estate obviouly named a after a pub? used by all the Utilities workers - especially The Railway Company who's Loco making and Maintenace that (I THINK? were prporieters of the estate.) He worked for the Gas, Light, and Coke Company".
Going Off piste: My Dad was a Lorry driver, and I have a Pre 1939 Road Map of London showed that road. After the War it is no longer showed ... My Guess is that Proximity to The Railway Works could have made it a Target.

His two eldest offspring (the only two that were brothers) they moved him out of The East London address to a Cottage (No house numbers, just names) Kimberley Road, Laindon, Essex. From approx 1929/30, as his work had been feeding the Cocking Ovens: thus the He soon got the ailments common to miners - Not helped by the Gas companies Steam trains (A couple of dozen on the High level from the Collier ships, and a couple of dozen more on the Lower deck to quench and store the Coke.
Another aside: I have read of the Great work of those steam Loco's but because of the fog (that they were contributing to) necessitate the early use of colour light signals, instead of signal arms... BUT.... to avoid giving misdirections to the approaching Shipping, they had Blue Lights instead of Green Lights at the Bend of The Thames. (Beckton).********
His ailing Health had taken off that work, but He becane a foreman on external work.

Mothers Mum...
Her Name was Elizabeth, but She died in 1931. I remember doing some investigation - but I'm afraid that my Mind necessitates me finding my notes/records. I DO remember that although Laindon was in The Brentwood area, administratively, and The Doc was in a House called "Hiawatha" in Laindon, the Hospital recorded was within the Bailiwick of Grays. (NON-NHS was Complicated then). But both were buried in Saint Nicholas Church, Laindon. (aka, "The Church on The Hill")


** In recent past (ten or twenty years) The Airfield was named as a different name to fit a Village at the far end of the runway: where the M1 now stands when an airliner crashed on the Motorway, But the site is actually East Midland Airfield.

**** With Watercress beds, from his Garden wall down to the Lee. And Sheep grazing (that His Spaniel would round up) until it became allotments in the war, and was still allotments there when I was around.

****** The Facebook entries included a man who had moved to New Zeeland. He got a planned visit to see the house (apparantly is was common at that time to get a conducted visit) He had photo's including the Sweeping staircase up to the Former Maternity ward.. and it must have been a Grand Place at some time in the past, but whoever restored it, did a good job.

******** Beckton Gas Works was rebuilt several times, but was eventually blown up in a Film - as a Vietnam Town in a Yankee war (or anti-war) film called "Full Metal Jacket" by some important producer

Sorry this is so "piecemeal", It was just as it came into my rusty brain. Ask me what I've missed out?

I've come up with a bit of a family tree, but your Maternal Grandfather seems to have lived a life under the horizon. The tale of his having walked to London from Yorkshire could conceivably have been a story relating to another generation. Often the good family stories attach themselves to one person. The burial records seem to stop in 1950 so index searches don't pick him up. Were there any cordwainers in your family? There was a bootmaker called Benjamin Fox, but he may have lived and died in Dewsbury. There were 3 sisters Fox living at the address you mentioned in 1939, One unmarried and two with both married and maiden names. The 1921 census is not released until next year,(swiz) which may tell us more. The local paper told a story of vandals having caused damage in St Nicholas' Churchyard last year, I think.

I've been wrestling with the exigencies of BT circulation lists and adding contacts. One draft with lots of BCC recipients refused to recognise my email address as principal target. The Magazine while circulating to the distributor didn't get to the printer for some reason so is delayed for a couple more days.

We are getting mixed rain and sun today. April come early, while March has been alternately raging like a lion and a lamb. The garden is beginning to run riot, which it usually does in spring. The Anemone Blanda and the rockery size tulips are flourishing, but the bigger dark ones are still only in bud.

Three sisters .... ?? Mum had three sisters (Winifred, Who, like my Mum, lived in The Daubeney Road address in 1939, as Did Mum who was still single in 1939) Her Two other Sisters Lived with Their Dad (my Grandad) in Kimberley Road, Laindon. (for the record: There was another Sister who had died as a child in (about) 1900, so certainly not there in 1939!!!
I obviously have to do some more sifting of details.

Re the walk to London: Obviously I have no direct information, but the story goes that The Locals (London) thought that Having come from a Coal-mining area, the Gas, Light, and Coke Company took him naturally to work in converting (i.e., Coak into Coke and Gas?).

Re Vandals at St Nicholas: The hedge/trees/greensward was on the Hill South of the Church... At Some time, travellers tried to put their caravans (Which would have been steep for parking caravans), Thus, a trench now exists betwixt the road and the greensward, but I know of no vandalism other than that, nor do I know the date.

(interruption for phonecall from Nursey).

Much thanks for what you have found - another thought (GEE, two thoughts in one day) In my earliest Memories of Daubeney Road was that by that my appearance, another Family were Living in the First floor of that house (presumably because two brothers were Married, two sisters, and Grandad & Granmum were by then in Laindon) I have always assumed that it was a case of a war displacement, but it could have been as far back as pre 1939.

Nope: No cordwainers: (weren't they from the days of Sail Shipbuilding Yards?)

The sisters were called Winifred, (never married), Ada Your Mum? and Edith, whose married names were added later. That's why the 1939 lists used for ID cards are so useful. It could have been an earlier Fox who did the walk and his son later followed him into the Coking trade. I think the older brothers and the parents were in Laindon by 1939. Benjamin Fox married Elizabeth Downing. You must have been born on your mother's birthday.

The bootmaker was a cordwainer. Someone making shoes out of new leather. There were relatives of mine in that trade too, but distantly related by marriage. The Bootmaker was a Benjamin Fox who lived and died in Dewsbury born 1865. Your grandfather was born in 1873. They used exact birthdates in 1939. Elizabeth Downing was born in 1874. There were two more sisters for your mother. Martha 1905 Flora 1908 and a boy Harry James 1930.

I'm putting off going out because there's been a fire in one village and long tailbacks of traffic.

I must remember to buy another light bulb for my bedroom. I only changed it after Christmas.

Lots of things coming to mind. ButI really needs to sort paperwork before delving.

Firstly (nothing to do with my ancestors) -. At one time I worked as an Employee in Local Gov. There was an old (i.e., old shop and long-established - I don't know of the age of the proprieter) That I had to visit - with the parks manager??? - The Street planting included a tree that had been deluded of leaves in 24 hours, by an alien/foreign caterpillar was threatening the country. However, setting that aside, The shop advertised as "Cordwainer"... and indeed some footwear - Male or female, new or repaired hanging visibly through the window... Who knows.

The Surname Downing matches what I found (via a group - possibly "third age" that met in a meeting room attached to the County Record Office, but did occasional meetings in the odd public librarty). Including Basildon (now closed in temp Covid lockdown)

Edith's claim to fame seems to be that she went to school (Laindon School, now closed and demolished) with the Daughter of Laindon Station Master (a man of important status: Mr Simms). I was often told that the daughter was a "Film Star" - I'll let you decide if "Carry on" Films was actual proper acting! ... or even a "Star"... I believe the bit about "same school" but the ages didn't fit to my way of thinking, then.

The Third Sister was Flora (or perhaps officially "Florence). She was a Child adopter (Dr Barnado's Successors - I believe the nearest was Barkingside - not far from Ilford's Cordwainer). But it seems to me that by that time she would be in Her Father/My Grandad's tiny house. At one of My visits (194?) I was sent out when Grandad was having some difficulty breathing - Probably one of the Coal/'Lung problem that Killed Him. I won't go into the Gory details, but the Problem in My mind was How a Single Woman Could be an adopter - My Mum was also an adopter. She (Flora) Later married a Widower at His (Her new Husband's) House also in Laindon. - another "aside"... When The A127 Southend Arterial Road was Widened to a Dual Carriageway (1928/30 in stages) and thus His Bungalow was the only two house Left when the road had taken the land - The other House was a veritable Mansion but I never saw that before it was demolished when Basildon was merely a King-size Construction site (1960's). Yup I know of that Family but won't go into it now.

I didn't mean to go on this much but I will conclude that when I was looking into History... Mum's two Brothers were in the Motor Industry, Pre War. They had Hire Cars (NOT Self drive, but involved Weddings and Funerals, but it was only at Harry's Funeral that I found He also ran a Charabanc (at least one).
The Nice Lady in Laindon Library knew of Fox's Garage in Laindon (beside the A127, before its Widening - The remaining area is still a Petrol Station). The Original was known as .... Harry Foxes Garage, and the Tea rooms attached were Flora and Edith.... The Library Lady had a picture pinned in the Library, a postcard photo of the Garge advertising Tours by Harry Fox. That was the reason I had been consulting the afore-mentioned Ancestry group in Basildon Library. I was trying to find if there was a Link

The 1930's Birthday that you found was for the Son of Harry Fox: - Harry James Fox aka, My Cousin.

Gotta go - Need sleeps ... Well, Moggy is staring at me in a "Why aren't you feeding me" mode.

My mother told me about her mother being taken to the family farm on the site that is now Longbridge, home of Austin. then i bought petrol from a garage on the A38 at Northfield which was called after the family.

Yes I thought that Harry James Fox was your generation, but his name was on the 1939 register so I thought he must be departed. they blank out many names of people who have died but who could still be alive, but it's not an exact science. Limo hire is still a prestige business.

I'll be off in a few minutes to go to the library, and collect Cassie's ashes. My Tyre place is quite happy to check and rectify my tyre pressures. And I have a huge duvet to get washed and dried. Even my 9Kg washing machine can't take it.

I'll catch up when I can - The "Remote" Pootermender has been working on this m/c today. ... (Bank Plastic Card is now crying) I Have Medical matters to deal with this week... But I'll be back...